Hormonal Panel really Messed up

[shak]

Hey bros,

This is my first post on this board. I have been looking around for a little bit and you guys really have a unique forum here. Lots of knowledgeable people, a very nice environment, things that are getting harder and harder to find these days on the net.

But anyway, the reason I am posting is because my test/LH levels are really messed up. A little bit of history:
I finished my 3rd cycle last October (400mg test E + 300 mg EQ for 15 weeks), did PCT by the book with HCG, Clomid, and nolva. My first two cycles were just as simple as well (1st-test cyp + EQ and the 2nd was var and test.) Both of them also really long (like 15-16 wks) I know that was mistake, but too late now.

So I finished PCT, was not feeling recovered, ran a 2nd PCT with Clomid and nolva again for another 3 weeks. Still not feeling ok after that, mood swings, depressed, my testosterone levels had to be low. Then I bought tribulus, redkat, all BS, worth as much as taking shit in my case.

Went to the doc a month ago and there you have it:

LH - 0.8 (normal is from 1.5 to 9)
Test - 130 (normal ranges are from 240 to 800 something according to their scale)

I feel like I messed it up really bad. It has been months after my cycle, my balls are still small, and my test levels are so low I can barely get a hard on. Workouts are gruesome, I can't gain weight, in fact I have been LOSING weight, and I feel like going to the gym is almost a waste of time on these test levels. Not to mention the total lack of libido, my wife understands, but I feel for her too.

Last week I saw a doc who is well versed on TRT and he wants me to start
cyp, 200 mg a week. I am happy I found a doc who is willing to help, but after giving it more thought, I don't think I should be starting HRT just yet. I never had my test levels measure before, soI dont know what my "normal" is but I never had any problems putting mass, libido issues or anything like that.

The wife and I are talking about kids and the thought of being infertile is keeping me awake at night.

I really dont know what to do, is there any way to kick start my HPTA? I wonder if my clomid was bad, I dont remember having any problems after PCT on my first two cycles.

What should I do bros? Help, please, I am really getting desperate here

	CLomid

	Nolva

[liftsiron]

How old are you? Regardless you maybe hypogonal and require TRT treatment. Discuss the concerns of having children with your doctor and possibility do a follow up with a fertility specialist.

[shak]

Thanks for the reply bro.

Sorry I forgot to mention that, I am 29 years old.
You are right, I could have made myself hypogonadal with the gear, but I just wanted to try to "jump start" my natural test production one last time before jumping on something for life... I heard it was possible with the correct dose/frequency of HCG and clomid, but I can't find that info anywhere.

Any ideas?

	CLomid

[liftsiron]

Originally Posted by shak

Thanks for the reply bro.

Sorry I forgot to mention that, I am 29 years old.
You are right, I could have made myself hypogonadal with the gear, but I just wanted to try to "jump start" my natural test production one last time before jumping on something for life... I heard it was possible with the correct dose/frequency of HCG and clomid, but I can't find that info anywhere.

Any ideas?

You maybe hypogonal without the gear having anything to do with it. For fertility issues medical intervention is often needed. I have heard of clomid at 50 to 100mgs for a peroid of months used as treatment. Sometime hcg is used at 250 to 500ius a few times a week. If hcg is used I would also use 10-20mgs of nolva ed as nolva prevents leydig cell desensitation.

	CLomid

	Nolva

[shak]

I came across this post from Taz:

A 27-year-old woman was referred by her general practitioner because of a 1-year history of primary subfertility. Her 37-year-old husband, who worked as a security guard, was an amateur bodybuilder and had been lifting weights regularly for the past 20 years. He had taken part in several regional level bodybuilding competitions. He admitted starting to use anabolic steroids to enhance his muscle mass and strength 10 years previously. In this time he had used more than seven different types of steroid, all of which he obtained illegally.

He explained that he used steroid combinations for usually a few months before taking a short break and then commencing another course of steroids. The longest sustained course he took was for 8 months when he took twice weekly injections of testosterone cypionate (amounting to 1 gram per week) combined with both daily Dianabol tablets (methandrostenolone; he started on 10 mg/day and then increased the dose to 60 mg/day) and daily Anavar tablets (oxandrolone at 20 mg/day). He admitted to also using Sustanon injections (testosterone propionate), Anadrol tablets (oxymetholone), Deca-Durabolin injections (nandrolone decanoate), and Primobolan Depot injections (methenolone enanthate).

During this period of time he had noticed a marked testicular atrophy as well as some erectile dysfunction (he described only partial erections which were difficult to maintain). He had not been on any medication in the past 1 year, had no other past medical history of note, and did not smoke or drink alcohol. On examination his skeletal muscle mass was found to be greatly increased. His secondary sexual characteristics were normal, although he had demonstrable gynecomastia. His testicles were of a low volume (2 to 3 mL) but were firm and nontender. There were no varicoceles present.

His serum gonadotropin and testosterone levels were low (FSH 0.5 U/L, LH 0.9 U/L, testosterone: 7 nmol/L). His serum prolactin level was normal. A urinary drug screen failed to identify any illicit substances; this was consistent with his story of having stopped taking the anabolic steroids 1 year previously when the couple decided to start a family. Three semen analyses (the third repeated 3 months after the second) showed a complete azoospermia with normal ejaculate volumes and liquefaction times.

We provided him with injections of human chorionic gonadotropins (hCG; Profasi; Serono) three times a week at a dose of 10,000 IU together with daily injections of human menopausal gonadotropin (hMG, Humegon; Organon) at a dose of 75 IU per day. After just 1 month of this treatment there was a dramatic improvement in his semen analyses, which showed a count of 8 million sperm/mL, motility of 48%, and 60% with normal morphology. His serum gonadotropin and androgen levels were normal at this time (FSH 5 U/L, LH 8 U/L, testosterone: 21 nmol/L). We continued this regimen for 2 months more and then rechecked his semen analyses. The sperm count was 23 million sperm/mL; motility was 45%, and 50% had normal morphology. We stopped the drug regimen and rechecked his semen analyses and serum testosterone levels 3 months later. The semen analysis was normal, as were the testosterone levels.

The goal of treating anabolic steroid–induced azoospermia is to restore endocrine function. Endocrine medications that are targeted specifically to ameliorate hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal function have been well described and include testosterone esters, hCG, synthetic analogues of GnRH, and antiestrogens [5]. Human chorionic gonadotropin used alone has been reported to be successful in treating this group of patients [6 and 7]. In these cases, testicular function, once back to normal, continued even after the hCG was stopped. Although administering hMG seems appropriate given the hypogonadotropic results in this patient, it is not clear if exactly the same response could not have been achieved using hCG alone. Indeed the speed of recovery of endocrine function in our patient did not seem to be any faster than in reported cases using hCG alone [6].

There is no consensus on the ideal dosage of hCG or hMG in the treatment of this condition. We choose this dosage regimen empirically, with a mind to increase the dose further if subsequent semen analyses failed to show a response. Further study is needed to identify the optimal treatment in these patients


--------------

What's HMG? Is it available like HCG?

	Cialis

	Letro

[shak]

Originally Posted by liftsiron

You maybe hypogonal without the gear having anything to do with it. For fertility issues medical intervention is often needed. I have heard of clomid at 50 to 100mgs for a peroid of months used as treatment. Sometime hcg is used at 250 to 500ius a few times a week. If hcg is used I would also use 10-20mgs of nolva ed as nolva prevents leydig cell desensitation.

I really dont think I am hypogonadal... It was never a problem before, I never had any of the symptons and fertility was not a problem either.

[Pdogg310]

looks like taz's article pretty much sums it up. :)

[liftsiron]

Originally Posted by Pdogg310

looks like taz's article pretty much sums it up. :)

An article citing one person hardly sums anything up imo. Some doctors cite hcg use above 500ius in a single dose may actually lead to destruction of sperm producing cells in the testes.

[Pdogg310]

Originally Posted by liftsiron

An article citing one person hardly sums anything up imo. Some doctors cite hcg use above 500ius in a single dose may actually lead to destruction of sperm producing cells in the testes.

Yeah, and some doctors cite steroid use as a huge health problem that needs to be addressed more so than the real problems of this country.

If he's having low sperm count and [testosterone], I'm sure an endo might tell him to take a combo of HMG and/or HCG. HMG is more for the sperm count since it has more of an effect on FSH/sertoli cells and HCG affects LH/leydig cells.

[Pdogg310]

Originally Posted by liftsiron

An article citing one person hardly sums anything up imo. Some doctors cite hcg use above 500ius in a single dose may actually lead to destruction of sperm producing cells in the testes.

Also at this point, he probably NEEDS to try some type of protocol under the watchful supervision of a professional b/c the problem will not likely alleviate itself and I def. think the article is a fairly good place to start.