Bunk gear...

[Strohs]

Well it's been 10 weeks and here is the cycle I was on:

Week 1-10 400mgs Organon yellow top deca/Norma Deca - 500mgs Nile Sust
Week 6-8 50mgs Zambon winny eod
Week 8-10 50mgs stanzo winny tabs ed

PCT: 20/40 mgs Nolva ed week 5-10
1 mg Armidex eod week 5-10
Clomid 30 pills (yet to start)

I bought my shit mail order since getting hookups in small town Mississippi gyms is quite rare. The guy was from the Ukraine and he had several quality references. The gear looked legit and was not noticiably an attempt at being fake. The expirations were all in 2006 so the gear was reasonably fresh. My diet wasn't exactly perfect but I averaged about 2-3000 calories a day getting at least 1 gram of whey per bodyweight and almost double that in carbs. I worked out everyday concentrating on one or two muscle groups. My question is... can it be possible to see zero results from gear with an average diet? I personally think the gear was fake. I mean my strength went up a little but my muscle mass and bodyweight didn't do a thing. I gained 5 pounds at best. My buddy did a 5 week so called cycle of QV 300 deca, unmanaged diet, drank 1 GNC brand whey shake a day and worked out on a fucking bowflex and gained 15 pounds. I just figured that since my gear intake was much higher and my diet and training were extremely better that I would have seen results that would have smoked my friends. Hell I was spending about 100 bucks a month on Myoplex deluxe - I think my strength gains and small muscle gains were due to the Myoplex. :pissed:

	CLomid

	Nolva

[Fro Con]

[quote=Strohs]

"My question is... can it be possible to see zero results from gear with an average diet? I personally think the gear was fake. I mean my strength went up a little but my muscle mass and bodyweight didn't do a thing. I gained 5 pounds at best. My buddy did a 5 week so called cycle of QV 300 deca, unmanaged diet, drank 1 GNC brand whey shake a day and worked out on a fucking bowflex and gained 15 pounds." [quote]


5 lbs? has to be fake otherwise no where near legit...sorry to hear this hope u didnt spend too much money

[Skeeve]

Originally Posted by Strohs

Well it's been 10 weeks and here is the cycle I was on:

Week 1-10 400mgs Organon yellow top deca/Norma Deca - 500mgs Nile Sust
Week 6-8 50mgs Zambon winny eod
Week 8-10 50mgs stanzo winny tabs ed

PCT: 20/40 mgs Nolva ed week 5-10
1 mg Armidex eod week 5-10
Clomid 30 pills (yet to start)

I bought my shit mail order since getting hookups in small town Mississippi gyms is quite rare. The guy was from the Ukraine and he had several quality references. The gear looked legit and was not noticiably an attempt at being fake. The expirations were all in 2006 so the gear was reasonably fresh. My diet wasn't exactly perfect but I averaged about 2-3000 calories a day getting at least 1 gram of whey per bodyweight and almost double that in carbs. I worked out everyday concentrating on one or two muscle groups. My question is... can it be possible to see zero results from gear with an average diet? I personally think the gear was fake. I mean my strength went up a little but my muscle mass and bodyweight didn't do a thing. I gained 5 pounds at best. My buddy did a 5 week so called cycle of QV 300 deca, unmanaged diet, drank 1 GNC brand whey shake a day and worked out on a fucking bowflex and gained 15 pounds. I just figured that since my gear intake was much higher and my diet and training were extremely better that I would have seen results that would have smoked my friends. Hell I was spending about 100 bucks a month on Myoplex deluxe - I think my strength gains and small muscle gains were due to the Myoplex. :pissed:

I don't know about you, but 2500 calories ed for me is probably around maintence.... so 3000 isn't nearly enough for bulking. Most people recommend 2-3 grams of protein ed while on cycle, and whey is not the way to go for all your protein needs; you should be consuming it after workouts and consuming other proteins the rest of the day. ANd if you worked out every day you were probably over training; thus you could have had good gear and still gained only 5 pounds because of the other factors. Your buddy was probably eating everything he could lay his hands on, and he def. wasn't overtraining if he was using a bowflex. Better to undertrain then over train.

	CLomid

	Nolva

	protein

[emn1964]

You answered your own question bro, it was fake. Stay in this game long enough and you'll get burned. Unfortunately, you aren't the first and you won't be the last. Just be thankful that your fake shit didn't make you sick. I know someone that ended up in the hospital from fake gear. Just try to do a source check next time.

[Skeeve]

Originally Posted by emn1964

You answered your own question bro, it was fake. Stay in this game long enough and you'll get burned. Unfortunately, you aren't the first and you won't be the last. Just be thankful that your fake shit didn't make you sick. I know someone that ended up in the hospital from fake gear. Just try to do a source check next time.

Did you read his post? His problem was probably his diet...

[Strohs]

Thats what I figured. 500 bucks for 5 pounds. It's a sick world we live in. I emailed my source and let hime know that his shit was fake and that I was going to start a negative campaign against his ass on the web site I paid to get his info. The bitch of the whole thing is that I was really looking forward packing on some mass. I admit that my diet was sub-par at times - but according to Doggcrapp's theory on bulking (my goal) eating pizza and burgers is ok as long as you moderately do it and take in your whey. And like I said I was drinking at least 110 grams of whey a day, 12 grams of glutamine a day, and 2 grams of CLA. I would gorge my self at least twice a week at pizza hut's buffet and other various all you can eat joints. All for nothing. Im very let down to say the least. I was planning on taking two months off and cutting with a winny/tren cycle. The stanzo tabs I am currently taking (I have six days left) seem to be working. They are Generic Labs and look spot on to pics that I have seen. The tabs came from another source that I tried when I started having doubts about the Ukraine con. I will probably order 100 more Stanzo tabs and buy some fina and make it my self that way I know when I put the effort into sticking my self every damn day that I'm putting something into my body that will work. Anybody got any objections to a 75 mgs a day fina/50 mgs winny (other than liver toxins) for 6 weeks for a cutter?

	finastride

[Skeeve]

Originally Posted by Strohs

Thats what I figured. 500 bucks for 5 pounds. It's a sick world we live in. I emailed my source and let hime know that his shit was fake and that I was going to start a negative campaign against his ass on the web site I paid to get his info. The bitch of the whole thing is that I was really looking forward packing on some mass. I admit that my diet was sub-par at times - but according to Doggcrapp's theory on bulking (my goal) eating pizza and burgers is ok as long as you moderately do it and take in your whey. And like I said I was drinking at least 110 grams of whey a day, 12 grams of glutamine a day, and 2 grams of CLA. I would gorge my self at least twice a week at pizza hut's buffet and other various all you can eat joints. All for nothing. Im very let down to say the least. I was planning on taking two months off and cutting with a winny/tren cycle. The stanzo tabs I am currently taking (I have six days left) seem to be working. They are Generic Labs and look spot on to pics that I have seen. The tabs came from another source that I tried when I started having doubts about the Ukraine con. I will probably order 100 more Stanzo tabs and buy some fina and make it my self that way I know when I put the effort into sticking my self every damn day that I'm putting something into my body that will work. Anybody got any objections to a 75 mgs a day fina/50 mgs winny (other than liver toxins) for 6 weeks for a cutter?

You were eating burgers and pizzas and still only consuming 2500-3000 calories a day?

[Strohs]

Originally Posted by Skeeve

I don't know about you, but 2500 calories ed for me is probably around maintence.... so 3000 isn't nearly enough for bulking. Most people recommend 2-3 grams of protein ed while on cycle, and whey is not the way to go for all your protein needs; you should be consuming it after workouts and consuming other proteins the rest of the day. ANd if you worked out every day you were probably over training; thus you could have had good gear and still gained only 5 pounds because of the other factors. Your buddy was probably eating everything he could lay his hands on, and he def. wasn't overtraining if he was using a bowflex. Better to undertrain then over train.

My friend ate like an ant. I only worked 1 body part a day no more than 45 minutes. I doubt that would be considered overtraining. I documented my diet everyday here is good and bad scenario. Plenty to get something from that much gear imo.

Good day's diet
7 am - 7 egg whites/half cup of oats/myoplex deluxe/flaxseed
10 am - Balance bar
12 pm - 1 yam/leafy greens/8 to 10 oz of chicken/flaxseed
3 pm - Myoplex deluxe
5 pm - Workout
6 pm - yam/greens/steak or salmon
9 pm - myoplex deluxe

Total Calories - 3962
Protein - 381
Carbs - 324
Fat - 128

Bad Days Diet
7 am - Myoplex deluxe/flaxseed
12 pm - Pizza Hut buffet (7-8 slices and 1 cup of pasta)/flaxseed
3 pm - balance bar
5 pm - workout
7 pm - steak/greens
9 pm - myoplex deluxe

Total calories - 2655
Protein - 336
Carbs - 178
Fat - 71

---------------------------------------------------------------------

If you do as much deca and sust as I was doing not to mention that it was the first cycle I've done, that diet should have produced more than 5 pounds.

	protein

[Strohs]

BTW my stats: 5'11 195

OK lets forget about the diet thing. Should I take clomid therapy and wait 2 months before starting a fina/winny cycle? My instincts tell me I should.

	CLomid

	finastride

[Skeeve]

Originally Posted by Strohs

My friend ate like an ant. I only worked 1 body part a day no more than 45 minutes. I doubt that would be considered overtraining. I documented my diet everyday here is good and bad scenario. Plenty to get something from that much gear imo.

Good day's diet
7 am - 7 egg whites/half cup of oats/myoplex deluxe/flaxseed
10 am - Balance bar
12 pm - 1 yam/leafy greens/8 to 10 oz of chicken/flaxseed
3 pm - Myoplex deluxe
5 pm - Workout
6 pm - yam/greens/steak or salmon
9 pm - myoplex deluxe

Total Calories - 3962
Protein - 381
Carbs - 324
Fat - 128

Bad Days Diet
7 am - Myoplex deluxe/flaxseed
12 pm - Pizza Hut buffet (7-8 slices and 1 cup of pasta)/flaxseed
3 pm - balance bar
5 pm - workout
7 pm - steak/greens
9 pm - myoplex deluxe

Total calories - 2655
Protein - 336
Carbs - 178
Fat - 71

---------------------------------------------------------------------

If you do as much deca and sust as I was doing not to mention that it was the first cycle I've done, that diet should have produced more than 5 pounds.

Look, dude, before you do any more gear you need to get your diet under control. I read your diet and the numbers looked a little off, so I crunched the numbers on the carbs on your "good" days, and viola! They don't add up to what you say they do. Here's what I came up with:

Myoplex d: 28gsx3=84
Oats 27g-4 grams of fiber=23
Balance bar:23 grams of carbs
Yams: 28g -4 fiber = 24x2=48
Total: 178

The supposed total: 324?!?
that's a big difference.
This is only the carbs. I didn't include the greens, because that should be mostly fiber. The numbers you posted for the good days would have yielded good gains if that was what you were consuming, but unless your eating lots of food that's not in your list you are no where near your targets. Where's the postwork out shake? Where's the whole wheat pasta? Where's the black beans and brown rice? If you want good gains off gear, you need to eat more. Most lifters eat more then this when they're not on, let alone when they're taking gear.

And on the training... 45 minutes a day is good, but the problem in this case isn't the length of your workout. Its the frequency. Your body needs days to recover and grow; days when you don't lift. Even on gear. The pros take days off, so should you.

And if you decide that your gear was fake, then you don't need clomid...

	CLomid

	protein