Some info on gyno

[iron ogr]

This is at a thorough look at gyno info and reduction info (both surgical and non-surgical) and hopefully it will make it into the educational threads so people can direct others with questions to it. Some of this will be nothing new for alot of members, I'm just trying to help ppl out.

To begin with, gyno is short for gynecomastia the "benign enlargement of the male breast resulting from proliferation of the glandular (hard/fibrous) component of the breast." It results from "altered estrogen-androgen balance, in favor of estrogen, or increased breast sensitivity to normal circulating estrogen level."

Estrogen increases fat storage (especially in men with female pattern fat distribution due to estrogen receptor location and density), it also helps the skeletal system (bone density, calcium utilization...) and helps maintain good cholesterol levels, so estrogen is something we dont want to completely eliminate.

We all have a small gland under each nipple as part of our natural anatomy, however many men (upto 60%) experience this gland enlarging (gyno) during puberty, due to the surge of testosterone which results in an increase in estrogen because the test is converting via aromatase into estrogen. Some/many men experience weak gyno not from abnormally high estrogen levels, but because they are more sensative to natural levels of estrogen.

AAS that can aromatize is a common cause of gyno when taken without proper anti-e's. Progesterone is another cause (however somewhat less common naturally) of gyno from AAS such as high doses of deca, etc... (or sensativity).

Other less common causes are excess aromatase (which is responsible for converting test to estrogen..), endocrine disorders, major genetic disorders (gyno will be the least of your concerns is this situation IMO) and excessive alcohol intake as well as smoking pot. There are also many naturally occuring estrogens called "phytoestrogens" which are found in the foods we eat and some can trigger an estrogenic response in the breast tissue.

Many men also may not have true gyno (weak or severe) but simply store fat on their chest before they store it anywhere else. For anyone looking to reduce existing gyno or tighten up your chest, the following is the bests things you can do (as far as I have researched and tried.)

The best thing you can do if your concerned is to goto a doctor and preferably an endocrinologist (or andrologist) and get a full blood test for every hormone level they offer.

Now, to help lower estrogen levels and increase testosterone, zinc lozenges (no need to buy expensive ZMA) can be added to your diet at one 20mg lonzenge ED... take it either between meals or apart from any large meals and meals containing milk (calcium) because zinc and calcium (and other minerals) fight for absorbtion. This zinc supplementation helps by lowering aromatase levels, however it is important to note that too little estrogen is dangerous and has negative effects (bone density, cholesterol, etc..) so keep it at 20 mg ED (yes 20 mg extra even though you prolly get 15mg RDA in your multivitamin, very little of that is being utilized/absorbed due to the other minerals in the multivitamin.) (IMPORTANT>> do not use zinc while on the following reduction cycles, use it "post cycle" after all other anti-e's are stopped.)

Reduction cycles to try> During all of the following, a reduced calorie diet (500-1000 calories below your lbm maintenence level) is mandatory, and cardio work 3-4 times per week is VERY VERY beneficial during these as well. The goal of these are to reduce the overal fatty storage around the chest/nipples and in many cases indirectly (or directly) reduce the hard (fibrous/glandular) tissues.. the results aren't gonna be magical, but are certainly worth a try for most people and when done correctly are your best bet (like i said as far as ive found to be true..)

MODERATE CYCLE (this is the safer of the two cycles)

yohimburn at 3/4 pipete on each nipple area 2xday (right after morning and evening shower, READ THE FAQ at the yohimburn page listed below) until bottle is empty
NYC (norephedrine, yohimbine, caffiene) at 4 pills ED (2 in the morning 2 before workout) for first two weeks

Now> like i said, as with both of these cycles, i suggest you gain a good understanding of the products/drugs involved and be careful.... also, if you are wondering "do i have gyno" then there is a good chance you don't have it.. alot of ppl get so worried about it that it becomes "mental gyno", symptoms of real gyno include soreness under the nipple, hard tissue (gland) growth under the nipple, lots of itchiness around the nipples....

Also> yohimburn can cause water retension which can look discouraging during the cycle but don't fret, that will go away and the results will most likely become more apparent further into the cycle and even upto weeks after the yohimburn is stopped (as time is needed for the water to recide), also if you lose alot of fat on either of these cycles, skin retension can take awhile to catch up with the fat loss, so don't worry if you lose fat but still have loose skin.

Now, surgical reduction. Surgery is expensive, but well worth the money if you get it done right and by a good surgeon (RESEARCH YOUR DOCTORS, ask around, ask him about expereince with gyno, etc.... don't accept dumb doctors). The links at the bottom have good sites for gyno surgery info, so i'll just let you read there about it. One note about surgery... it will keep you from workin out for about six weeks, but this is very important to obey the doctors orders for good results... (ie WEAR THE COMPRESSION WRAP which almost all surgeons will say you need post surgery). Sometimes you can get insurance to pay for surgery, so i suggest trying, however make sure you don't apply for them to pay for it due to "cosmetic surgery", use something along the lines of "hormonal problem" as the reason...however most times the surgeon's office are the ones applying and already know how to word it properly...



Links>

Info on aromatase and gyno = http://journals.endocrinology.org/e...315/0060315.pdf (requires adobe acrobat reader)
Info on gyno = http://www.emedicine.com/med/topic934.htm
Info on endocrine disruption = http://ace.orst.edu/info/extoxnet/f...e/endocrine.htm
Info on phytoestrogens = http://www.ifst.org/hottop34.htm
Info on surgery = www.drnadler.com AND www.plasticsurgery4u.com
Info on yohimburn = www.yohimburn.com
NYC = www.anabolicfitness.net (legal)

UPDATE> link to elite post on similiar topic> http://boards.elitefitness.com/foru...threadid=128733]

	Letro

[thinkbig]

is surgery a permanent solution?

[Skeeve]

Originally Posted by thinkbig

is surgery a permanent solution?

Yes. In most cases the gland is removed, so gyno can not recur.

	Letro

[thinkbig]

Originally Posted by Skeeve

Yes. In most cases the gland is removed, so gyno can not recur.

preciate it skeeve. what i have isnt that noticeable, but i know it's there. it's about like diablo69's pic. i've tried macaroot (suggested by a friend) to cure the soreness, and it worked a little (unless it was a placebo thing). but it looks like surgery is inevitable.

any ideas on surgery cost?

thinkbig

[irishcoug0307]

I'm not sure if i have gyno or not but my nipples look exactly like those on teh gyno pics ...which would be better nolva or clomid and also should i bother seeing a doctor and can she prescribe this or should i just buy nolva instead.

	CLomid

	Nolva

	Letro

[thinkbig]

Originally Posted by irishcoug0307

I'm not sure if i have gyno or not but my nipples look exactly like those on teh gyno pics ...which would be better nolva or clomid and also should i bother seeing a doctor and can she prescribe this or should i just buy nolva instead.

i wouldn't worry with a doctor unless the pain is too much. and i'm not sure if doctors will prescribe nolva. but it's easy to find. i've been taking 0.5ml/day for the past week and the soreness is disappearing.

i went to a doc last summer, and he really didn't tell me anything i didn't already know. but, it's up to you.

	Nolva

[4579een]

I thought nolva was enough by itself...

	Nolva

[couglifter]

Does anyone have any experience with Yohimburn? It seems like it would do very well. I have some hard to remove fat on my chest that would be great to remove.

[Skeeve]

I tried topical pgf2 to reduce puffiness, and it worked fairly well...

[monkey6494]

has anyone tried the "liquid clo" and or the "liquid dex" from universal kits...?